Posts by Doug Mason

28

WT Library

by MsTruthSeeker2014 in

does anyone have the link to dl the wt library?

i was looking for some mag from the 1900s and see that the jw org site only goes back to 2000.

Doug Mason

Newly Enlightened,

Do you plan to make "The Messanger" available?

Unfortunately, the file I have is a humungous 443 meg, with 713 pages covering 1927 to 1946. Do you have "The Messenger" available in a more convenient form?

Doug

16

My problem with Original Sin

by leftbelow in

i found this quote in a book i was reading and it struck me this is why original sin is a problem for me.. damnation is the start of your morality, destruction is its purpose, means and end.

your code begins by damning man as evil, then demands that he practice a good which it defines as impossible for him to practice.

it demands, as his first proof of virtue, that he accept his own depravity without proof.

Doug Mason

Sparky1,

Explain to me why this is speaking of Original Sin.

Also, how do you know who wrote it? And if he was guilty of Original Sin, how can we believe what he wrote? (Reminds me of the man who said: "I always tell lies". Was he telling the truth when he said that?)

Doug

28

WT Library

by MsTruthSeeker2014 in

does anyone have the link to dl the wt library?

i was looking for some mag from the 1900s and see that the jw org site only goes back to 2000.

Doug Mason

Newly Enlightened,

I think that I am correct in saying that the file named as:

06_12 Consolation (1).pdf under "1940 Consolation"

should be renamed as

06_26 Consolation.pdf

Apologies if I am wrong.

Doug

16

My problem with Original Sin

by leftbelow in

i found this quote in a book i was reading and it struck me this is why original sin is a problem for me.. damnation is the start of your morality, destruction is its purpose, means and end.

your code begins by damning man as evil, then demands that he practice a good which it defines as impossible for him to practice.

it demands, as his first proof of virtue, that he accept his own depravity without proof.

Doug Mason

Off the top of my head, I think that Augustine of Hippo was the person responsible for creating the concept of Original Sin. My memory could be wrong (again - it has been known to happen), but that's my story. Probably a www search would be the order of the day.

Doug

28

WT Library

by MsTruthSeeker2014 in

does anyone have the link to dl the wt library?

i was looking for some mag from the 1900s and see that the jw org site only goes back to 2000.

Doug Mason

Newly Enlightened,

Many thanks.

Does your list include the Special Watchtower of 1894? It's available at several places, including: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents/1894_WT_Extra_A_Conspiracy_Exposed.pdf

Otherwise just search for: 1894 Watchtower Conspiracy Exposed

Doug

6

Was Jesus the Nazarene The Messiah / Promised in The Hebrew Scriptures?

by objectivetruth in

in seeking truth, and removing untruth, often more is removed then ever initially imagined possible.. christianity, claims that jesus was & is the messiah.

this claim is primarily based on the writings of the greek scriptures.. throughout history, god has given signs to people, in order for them to believe.

never has he become upset with an individual asking for a sign.. some individuals such as moses asked for multiple signs.

Doug Mason

Even though the myths were created by the Israelites in the distant past, they are relevant today because current communities perpetuate them and feel bound by them. Therefore understanding that past helps us as we thread our lives through modern society.

Learn the lessons that history teaches so that its errors are not repeated. Identifying previous strategies, myths, propaganda, and such helps to prepare us for similar facets of life today.

The lesson that history teaches is that people do not learn the lesson that history teaches.

Understand the history that forced Christianity to become a European religion, stripped away from its Middle Eastern roots.

Doug

6

Was Jesus the Nazarene The Messiah / Promised in The Hebrew Scriptures?

by objectivetruth in

in seeking truth, and removing untruth, often more is removed then ever initially imagined possible.. christianity, claims that jesus was & is the messiah.

this claim is primarily based on the writings of the greek scriptures.. throughout history, god has given signs to people, in order for them to believe.

never has he become upset with an individual asking for a sign.. some individuals such as moses asked for multiple signs.

Doug Mason

If life were only so simple.

The people who accepted that Jesus (Yeshua) was indeed the promised Messiah - people such as Peter, Paul, Matthew and John - were Jews.

It is always so simple to lump people into pigeon-holes, making a homogenous pie when there are many many separate parts. Take the modern concept of "Christians". This term encompasses the broadest range of ideas and ideals. This was also true of Israelites in the times of the NT Scriptures that they wrote. While many were expecting a warrior-king who would destroy their enemies, others were expecting a human/divine being. There were many at the time claiming to be the promised Messiah, and the question that people asked was: "Is this One the Promised Messiah?" Some Israelites did, and through the perspective of subsequent history, notably the prism of the third century, we view some Israelites as "Jews" and some Israelites as "Christians".

Those Israelites who did accept that the anticipated Messiah (Mesach/Christ) would be a divine/human based their beliefs on the imagery of Daniel 7.

The following is written by a Jewish scholar.

Doug

==================

Being religiously Jewish then was a much more complicated affair than it is even now. There were no Rabbis yet, and even the priests in Jerusalem and around the countryside were divided among themselves. Not only that, but there were many Jews both in Palestine and outside of it, in places such as Alexandria in Egypt, who had very different ideas about what being a good, devout Jew meant. Some believed that in order to be a kosher Jew you had to believe in a single divine figure and any other belief was simply idol worship. Others believed that God had a divine deputy or emissary or even son, exalted above all the angels, who functioned as an intermediary between God and the world in creation, revelation, and redemption. Many Jews believed that redemption was going to be effected by a human being, an actual hidden scion of the house of David—an Anastasia—who at a certain point would take up the scepter and the sword, defeat Israel's enemies, and return her to her former glory. Others believed that the redemption was going to be effected by that same second divine figure mentioned above and not a human being at all. And still others believed that these two were one and the same, that the Messiah of David would be the divine Redeemer. As I said, a complicated affair. …

Christ too—the divine Messiah—is a Jew. Christology, or the early ideas about Christ, is also a Jewish discourse and not—until much later—an anti-Jewish discourse at all. Many Israelites at the time of Jesus were expecting a Messiah who would be divine and come to earth in the form of a human. Thus the basic underlying thoughts from which both the Trinity and the incarnation grew are there in the very world into which Jesus was born and in which he was first written about in the Gospels of Mark and John. ...

Almost everyone recognizes that the historical Jesus was a Jew who followed ancient Jewish ways. There is also growing recognition that the Gospels themselves and even the letters of Paul are part and parcel of the religion of the People of Israel in the first century A.D. What is less recognized is to what extent the ideas surrounding what we call Christology, the story of Jesus as the divinehuman Messiah, were also part (if not parcel) of Jewish diversity at this time.

The Gospels themselves, when read in the context of other Jewish texts of their times, reveal this very complex diversity and attachment to other variants of "Judaism" at the time. There are traits that bind the Gospel of Matthew to one strain of first-century "Judaism" while other traits bind the Gospel of John to other strains. The same goes for Mark, and even for Luke, which is generally considered the "least Jewish" of the Gospels. (“The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ”, by Daniel Boyarin, pages 5-6, 22)

18

El, Baal and JHVH

by Doug Mason in

one of the most important sources that we have for the most ancient stages of the religion of israel are some epic texts about the gods of canaan that were found in an archaeological excavation in a place called ras shamra (ancient ugarit) early in the twentieth century.

these epics reveal a very rich ancient canaanite mythology, especially in the elaborated stories of the gods el and baal and their rivals and consorts.

while, of course, the israelite branch of the canaanite group partly defined itself through the rejection of this mythology, much of the imagery and narrative allusions that we find in the works of the israelite prophets, the psalms, and other biblical poetic texts are best illuminated through comparison with these ancient texts.

Doug Mason

"Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan", by John Day

"The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistsic Background and the Ugaritic Texts", by Mark S. Smith

"Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel", by William G. Dever

"The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel", by Mark S. Smith

"The Ark Before Noah: Decoding the Story of the Flood", by Irving Finkel

18

El, Baal and JHVH

by Doug Mason in

one of the most important sources that we have for the most ancient stages of the religion of israel are some epic texts about the gods of canaan that were found in an archaeological excavation in a place called ras shamra (ancient ugarit) early in the twentieth century.

these epics reveal a very rich ancient canaanite mythology, especially in the elaborated stories of the gods el and baal and their rivals and consorts.

while, of course, the israelite branch of the canaanite group partly defined itself through the rejection of this mythology, much of the imagery and narrative allusions that we find in the works of the israelite prophets, the psalms, and other biblical poetic texts are best illuminated through comparison with these ancient texts.

Doug Mason

Phizzy,

My view is that the OT writings were shaped by the experiences during the neo-Babylonian "Captivity". Nebuchadnezzar focused on exiling the powerful elite (religious leaders, military leaders, royal household). Babylon probably exiled leaders of the People of the Land, but since the OT writings were not produced by them, they do not feature. Indeed, the OT writers wrote the People of the Land out of their revisionist history, claiming that the land was devoid of occupation.

When we read the OT writings, we see the propaganda produced by a group that was determined to centralise worship at Jerusalem, on their Yahwistic terms. The High Places, although not explicitly condemned in the Torah, posed a threat to their ambitions, and their dreams appeared to be met when the boy-king Josiah followed their instructions. Abram offered his son on a High Place; Moses received the commandments on a High Place.

Following the return of exiled elite, the royal household's power was eliminated. The only reference being to the leaders of the first group of exiles, being descendants of Jehoiachin. The power struggles within the religious returnees (see Ezra) produced groupings that manifested themselves during Jesus' time. He, of course, was an ultra-orthodox literalist who wished to remove the instructions introduced by the Pharisees, and Jesus' desire was for the original Torah to be observed in full.

Doug

18

El, Baal and JHVH

by Doug Mason in

one of the most important sources that we have for the most ancient stages of the religion of israel are some epic texts about the gods of canaan that were found in an archaeological excavation in a place called ras shamra (ancient ugarit) early in the twentieth century.

these epics reveal a very rich ancient canaanite mythology, especially in the elaborated stories of the gods el and baal and their rivals and consorts.

while, of course, the israelite branch of the canaanite group partly defined itself through the rejection of this mythology, much of the imagery and narrative allusions that we find in the works of the israelite prophets, the psalms, and other biblical poetic texts are best illuminated through comparison with these ancient texts.

Doug Mason

Hairtrigger,

This book challenges, so only read it if that does not worry you.

I believe it is important to read a range of material and to develop a personal position that is open to growth and change.

Doug